tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-965291110074390288.post7670556145358449133..comments2023-04-16T10:24:32.414+01:00Comments on Mishkan ha-Echad - Golden Dawn Blog by Frater Yechidah: Material Gain and the Golden DawnFrater Yechidahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08630272924336872824noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-965291110074390288.post-65473796131115593492012-04-08T12:29:26.885+01:002012-04-08T12:29:26.885+01:00You're right that it's a personal moral ch...You're right that it's a personal moral choice - and either way you have to live with the consequences of whichever stance you take.<br /><br />I wouldn't feel comfortable using magic for personal gain, but maybe I'm just lucky that I've never had to. However I have asked my inner contacts nicely for favours, and I have done things like make a talisman to help sell my house - so it's really all a matter of where you draw the line. In the past when I was hard up and unhappy, magical work gave me something positive to focus on which brought its own blessings. As you rightly say, using magic to sort out finances as an alternative to using mundane solutions is not a good move (and would probably lead to unintended consequences!)<br /><br />My approach (which may not be any better than anyone else's) is to place a bit of trust in the universe. If you commit yourself to doing magic for the greater good, as opposed to just personal spiritual unfoldment, then you tend to find the right opportunities opening up and the right people coming into your life at the right time. The difficulty though is that it's hard to recognise that this is happening, because it often only becomes clear in hindsight. Sometimes the best gifts come in very mundane ways, and may even disguise themselves as disasters!<br /><br />Tabatha's comment is spot on - the fundamental thing is to be able to function in the mundane of everyday life and not be using magic as a means to escape from it.Rebsie Fairholmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17811733792196954188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-965291110074390288.post-85042062507545660122012-03-27T17:10:41.065+01:002012-03-27T17:10:41.065+01:00I never thought about Crowley's account of Wes...I never thought about Crowley's account of Westcott's papers. That's an interesting one to ponder!<br /><br />Likewise, thanks for sparking this debate :)<br /><br />LVX,<br />Dean.Frater Yechidahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08630272924336872824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-965291110074390288.post-1647977193418447192012-03-27T16:22:59.687+01:002012-03-27T16:22:59.687+01:00Hi Dean, thanks again for your viewpoints, which ...Hi Dean, thanks again for your viewpoints, which again I can see a lot of merit in. Also, if my passages in the book provoke guilt alone, I have failed. They were there to provide a mild wake up, reality call, not to guilt anyone :)<br /><br />Finally, as I we think we agree to disagree, I do agree with you on the original GD having hints along practical magic lines. In fact in King Over the Water when Nick places doubt on Crowley's account of papers left in a taxi bearing Westcott's name because they included instructions for raising devils, invisibility, creating gold, making rain etc, I thought of the Z Docs :)<br /><br />Thanks for the discussion :)Peregrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508191641503321789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-965291110074390288.post-86265117504196306052012-03-27T14:50:57.336+01:002012-03-27T14:50:57.336+01:00As an aside, Jupiter Talismans were created by the...As an aside, Jupiter Talismans were created by the original GD members too. I'm not sure how close the ritual was to Regardie's, but Yeats, at least made one.<br /><br />The weather magic thing isn't Regardie though... it's been axed from a lot of copies of the Z-documents since, but it does show that there were considerations for the more practical side of magic.<br /><br />LVX,<br />Dean.Frater Yechidahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08630272924336872824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-965291110074390288.post-23492249949195237822012-03-27T14:41:42.714+01:002012-03-27T14:41:42.714+01:00Hey Peregrin,
Thanks for the expanding upon your ...Hey Peregrin,<br /><br />Thanks for the expanding upon your argument.<br /><br />I do agree that it is important to consider those who are less well-off than us, in any way, shape, or form, and there are a lot, in all parts of the world.<br /><br />However, I don't really think it's the place of the GD to guilt people into not using magic for personal gain just because there are starving people in the world. That, to me, is imposing moral values, which, while important, is not what I believe the GD is about.<br /><br />The same kind of reasoning could be used to suggest that people should not pursue higher qualities of life, be it a promotion at work, buying a house, making investments, and so forth. A person on social welfare in Ireland is comparatively better off than someone who is dying from starvation in another part of the world, but should we be using that argument to discourage this person from improving their life?<br /><br />When we think about it, if a magician decides not to use magic to get a job, for example, how are they in any way helping the world become a better place? For one, they will not have the money to contribute to charity, which another person with that may or may not give. They might be taking the poor into consideration in their thoughts, but it amounts to little if there is no action.<br /><br />Of course, this brings up the other consideration of magic used to help the world, which I think many GD magicians employ, directly and indirectly.<br /><br />LVX,<br />Dean.Frater Yechidahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08630272924336872824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-965291110074390288.post-4757215715329045662012-03-27T04:28:03.230+01:002012-03-27T04:28:03.230+01:00Hello Dean,
Thank you for this post and for revie...Hello Dean,<br /><br />Thank you for this post and for reviewing the book :)<br /><br />I do like the argument you present here, but would like a chance to expand my own :)<br /><br />The main thrust of my argument is not fully presented in your post when you write, <br /><br />"Also, the idea that if someone can afford a book on magic then they are "rich beyond measure" is something I cannot agree with it, as some people scrape by in life and make sacrifices in order to afford books and other things that are employed within our tradition."<br /><br />The full quotation is: "In a world where twenty thousand people will die from poverty and starvation each day, any Westerner who can afford to buy a book on magic is to be counted as rich beyond measure."<br /><br />It is this comparison I am trying to foster. I believe people are better, more compassionate magicians with this awareness. And I do think scraping to get by is very different to watching your child starve to death. So I do maintain that in comparison we are rich. <br /><br />I also think immersing ourselves in Malkuth and making it in the physical realm is helped by being aware of what it is real, and these things such as hunger related deaths are real, in the real physical world. Most of us, myself included simply ignore this real, Malkuth reality most of the time. <br /><br />I do know the effects of poverty in the developed world is nothing to be sneezed at. It is awful, grindingly depressing and can render our spirituality less effective. I am not suggesting we simply ignore this. I just also honestly think, from my years of experience that magic is not the best way to address material concerns. I have written about this on MOTO and rather than repeat myself give the link here: http://magicoftheordinary.wordpress.com/2009/05/05/practical-or-low-magic/<br /><br />As you say, there are a few examples of practical magic the GD corpus, though Regardie's personal rituals are not necessarily canon :) And also, as you reproduce from the book, each of us must make our own minds up on this issue. I am not making any judgements of other magicians, but from the comments on this topic I have received, I am presenting an alternate viewpoint, albeit a minority one. Perhaps it is an opinion most have not considered?<br /><br />Thanks :)Peregrinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09508191641503321789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-965291110074390288.post-56702267248041286912012-03-27T00:01:39.852+01:002012-03-27T00:01:39.852+01:00Thanks Tabatha.
Exactly, spiritual progress also ...Thanks Tabatha.<br /><br />Exactly, spiritual progress also requires fully immersing ourselves in our physical life, exploring Malkuth rather than shunning or ignoring it.<br /><br />Since balance underlines all aspects of GD work, it needs to underline our approach to spiritual practice and magic as well.<br /><br />Therefore I see no reason why we should not use magic to better our physical lives, providing we are also using it for spiritual progress.<br /><br />Of course, this does not mean that we should not try to find physical ways of addressing these issues as well. Relying on magic to sort out our finances while ignoring possible "everyday" ways to address income, debt, etc. is just as imbalanced an approach.<br /><br />LVX,<br />Dean.Frater Yechidahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08630272924336872824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-965291110074390288.post-13371000939873739312012-03-26T23:30:50.430+01:002012-03-26T23:30:50.430+01:00Dean,
Excellent, excellent post!
Regardie used ...Dean,<br /><br />Excellent, excellent post! <br /><br />Regardie used to say that if a magician could not make it in Malkuth, he had no business delving into the Astral Realms. <br /><br />Some have misinterpreted this to mean that he was OK with the idea of magic purely for profit. Not true. What he was really saying was that a healthy, balanced approach between the spiritual and the material was needed.Tabathahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09405963142063602808noreply@blogger.com