Sex is a controversial subject no matter where it arises, but doubly so when it is relation to a secret society. It is well known, for example, that some of the higher grades of the OTO give teachings on sexual magic, but it is a cause of some debate about how sex is dealt with, if at all, in the Golden Dawn. There has been much misinformation and confusion, partly due, in my opinion, to one modern Golden Dawn order which has included Third Order grades and filled them with sex magic teachings. Some of the confusion may have arisen before this, however, from certain statements and actions taken by some Order members.
But first, let us look at MacGregor and Moina Mathers, the two leading forces in the Order once Westcott had resigned. While they were married, they never consummated the marriage, and never engaged in sexual activity whatsoever (or, at least, so it is claimed). In 1895 Moina wrote to Annie Horniman about her views on sex, the sexual abstinence she and her husband undertook, and the concept of incubi and succubi:
But first, let us look at MacGregor and Moina Mathers, the two leading forces in the Order once Westcott had resigned. While they were married, they never consummated the marriage, and never engaged in sexual activity whatsoever (or, at least, so it is claimed). In 1895 Moina wrote to Annie Horniman about her views on sex, the sexual abstinence she and her husband undertook, and the concept of incubi and succubi:
"When I first heard this theory it gave me a shock, but not such a horrible one as that which I had when I was young, about the human condition. Child or no, a natural thing should not upset one so. I remember that my horror of human beings for a while was so great that I could not look at my own mother without violent dislike - and loathing.I think it is fairly clear here that Moina was very much ingrained in the prudish Victorian society in which she lived, as were many of the members of the Order (I was recently told that masturbation made Yeats feel ill, for example), while some, such as Florrence Farr and Aleister Crowley rebelled against it. It is obvious, however, that Moina heavily disliked the notion of sex with entities, and, indeed, any sexual relations whatsoever. I think this is rather clear in relation to sex magic. It is not quite certain if Mathers shared his wife's views to such an extreme, but he seemed to respect her wishes, and they both came to a mutual decision to avoid sex. How, therefore, could a couple who refused to have sex espouse sexual teachings in their Order (that is, other than the sexual symbolism of polarities)? I can state with absolute certainty here and now that sex was never a topic for discussion in Order papers, and sex magic was never a practice engaged or taught in the Order, no matter what grade. There are, of course, some Cromlech Temple papers, such as Aura Paper 23, Concerning Sex on the Aura, but these are not technically Golden Dawn material.
I have always chosen as well as 'SRMD' to have nothing whatever to do with any sexual connection - we have both kept perfectly clean I know, as regards the human, the elemental, and any other thing whatever.
I have tried, and I think succeeded, never to allow myself to think of any subject in that direction."- Moina Mathers
Dion Fortune came into conflict with Moina when she published a book dealing with certain sexual principles. Her own account of the conflict states that "[Moina] turned me out for writing The Esoteric Philosophy of Love and Marriage, on the grounds that I was betraying the inner teaching of the Order". I believe that this statement (and the original ones made by Moina, as well as similar letters to Case on the same subject, not to mention the Horos scandal, where the Horos couple falsely claimed to be leaders of the Golden Dawn, thereby associating their sexual deviancies with the Order) has given some people the intimation that sex magic is employed in some of the higher grades of the Golden Dawn, but again this must be refuted on two grounds: 1) the complete lack of any such papers dealing with the subject, in any of the grades; and 2) the attitude to sex taken by the Mathers.
I made the point above that it is unclear if Mathers shared the extremity with which his wife viewed sex, and I believe the following should make it clear that he did not. He was always espousing the belief that one's private life lay outside the temple, and this included sex. He initiated Crowley when the latter was refused initiation by the other Adepts, with one of the causes of the refusal being his sexual promiscuity (and possibly his bisexuality). Crowley is notorious for his attitude to sex, so it seems unusual that Mathers would not berate him on it if he believed it to be an issue. But he did not, as it was Crowley's private life, part of the outer personality that was to be left at the door when one entered the temple.
But there was one person in the Golden Dawn who did receive a berating by Mathers on the matter of sex, and this was Dr. Edward William Berridge (Frater Resurgam). He became entangled in some sexual issues within the Order, promoting the sexual theories of T.L. Harris and making some advances on the female members of the Order while in temple. Annie Horniman and a few others complained about him, and Mathers was forced to demote him from his office as Sub-Imperator and finally to suspend him from both Inner and Outer Orders for a period of 3 months, once he was seen to be gloating over Horniman's prior dismissal.
Waite noted the following about Berridge:
"My information was full of iniquities of Resurgam and told a strange story concerning a Nurse Graham, brought in, I think, by Soror Mystica, whom he visited continually. He boasts of his astral intercourse with a counterpart or affinity in the astral world, by whom he has had three spirit children."This was not the only reference to such, as there was a curious reference to "elemental marriage" in a letter from Mathers to Horniman, where he stated:
It is not clear what is meant here by "elemental marriage" or what occured with Mrs. Carden (Sr. Amore), but this is one of the very few mentions of sexual practices in relation to the astral world. For the most part, most of the members of the Order progressed through their gradework perfectly happy to leave their sex lives at home, as most of the members of the modern Golden Dawn Orders are content to do likewise. Some will continue to argue that the Golden Dawn teaches sex magic, either as an attempt to discredit the Order or as an attempt to bring sex magic into the Order on a basis that has never existed, but at the end of the day there is no backing to these speculations whatsoever."[Regarding Soror] Amore - she was recommended Elemental marriage because of in her case the extreme danger of invoking an incubus instead of a Fay through want of self-control."
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16 comments:
The highest hermetic mysteries has always dealt with a sexual interpretation of alchemy, whether you like it or not. Look for example at Cagliostro's Arcana Arcanorum. But the A.A. of Cagliostro is only one minor example of the inner teachings in european esotericism. This is also confirmed in various eastern traditions of high arcana.
Now, Rosicrucianism stems from that inner alchemical tradition. Where you believe Golden Dawn came from? From the imagination of Mathers and Westcott?
The two biggest currents of 18th century Rosicrucianism taught hermetic inner (sexual) alchemy; the Gold- ünd Rosenkreutz (and the Asiatic Brethren) and the Misraïm Rite (Egypian Freemasonry of Cagliostro). Much evidence points to the fact that the Golden Dawn has its origins in the German Rosicrucian heretige of Gold- ünd Rosenkreutz and Asiatic Brethren. Personally I believe that Cagliostro also received his sexual teachings from Germany.
So what you basically is stating here, is that the Golden Dawn didn't have access to these higest hermetic mysteries, even though Mathers had received contact with the Third Order and Lux E Tenebris?
If the Third Order represents the oldest and most secret European esoteric movement and current, isn't it fair to assume that it does teach sexual alchemy and therugy?
Just because there's no documents describing any sexual techniques, it doesn't prove that there wasn't any sexual teachings and practices in the R.R. et A.C. Guess why? Firstly, it belonged to the 7=4, or rather started at that level. Secondly, inner alchemy has always been an oral teaching because of the rigid secrecy surrounding it.
Regarding Monina abstinence from sex. Is there any evidence that she held to these ideas as expressed in her 1895 letter after the turn of the century?
Besides. Inner alchemy isn't about "sex" in the usual sense of the word. It's about usung what God has given us through our bodies which provides us with the subject matter or Materia Prima and the laboratory to work with it.
I believe it all amounts to a typical anglo saxon blind spot, because of old victorian sentiments which still has its grip on the anglo saxon soul. In continental Europe, from where Rosicrucianism had its origins, the views on sex and esotericism is fundamentally different.
S.R.
Ave Sincerus Renatus,
Your post is extremely defensive. Statements like "whether you like it or not" and "so what you basically is stating" suggest that you were highly offended by this post. This is unfortunate, but whether you like it or not, there is no sex magic in the Golden Dawn, whether there was intimations of sex or sexual symbolism in pre-G.'.D.'. orders, Arcana Arcanorum or Gold und Rosenkreutz or any other. Just people there is sex in pre-G.'.D.'. traditions which the G.'.D.'. drew upon does not mean that the G.'.D.'. utilised those teachings. Certain material is chosen and other material is left out.
Obviously you are an exponent of sex magic, or at least it appears that way from your defensive rant and your high praise of the supposed "high arcana", which you say is confirmed here and there. Black magic is confirmed in the West and the East, in various forms, and that does not make it any more valid or any more present within the Golden Dawn.
You ask "Where you believe Golden Dawn came from? From the imagination of Mathers and Westcott?" I understand that this is a rhetorical question, but it is also, in my opinion, a naive one, given you have read and commented on many of my posts where I have discussed, for example, the Cipher Manuscripts, which have nothing to do with the imagination of Mathers or Westcott.
It is not "fair to assume that it does teach sexual alchemy and therugy", since, for the most part, none of the Third Order grades were worked in the Golden Dawn, being primarily theoretical. Much of the teaching for the Second Order wasn't finished, let alone that for the Third Order. We're talking about historical fact here, which you hint at with your claims about the Golden Dawn's origins, so we can't "assume" anything, although we can make speculation, which is all, I'm afraid, your argument about sex magic for the non-existant Third Order is.
Lack of proof does not mean proof of lack, as the phrase goes, but quite a bit of material has survived, and there is no historical argument for the Golden Dawn teaching sex magic. It's a little convenient that much of the other material has survived, even if unpublished, and not one scrap of material on sex magic has survived. "Oral teaching" is often used as an excuse to justify wild claims, and I've seen it used by multiple groups, claiming descent from the Apostles or Atlantis or any other kind of thing. So, has this oral teaching survived?
I'm not sure if Moina retained the same views regarding sex after the turn of the century, but given the severity of her views, I doubt she would have changed them lightly. There is no evidence to suggest that she changed her views.
I know what inner alchemy is, and it's much broader than what you seem to imply.
As for your blatant insult regarding the "anglo saxon blindspot", grow up. You can play high and mighty with your continental blood, assuming you are more liberal and open-minded than everyone else, but all it proves is that you are egotistical.
Plus, I think the "anglo saxon blindspot" you criticise would apply to the majority of the original Golden Dawn members, what with them being primarily anglo-saxon. All you've done here is further suggest that sex magic was not a part of the Golden Dawn.
And, for the record, check my various posts on sexual symbolism to see that I do conform to a Victorian mindset, as you seem to imply with your blatantly racist and wide-sweeping comment.
LVX,
Dean.
No Dean, I wasn't offended, just somewhat annoyed. I havn't read all of the material on your blog. I was judging this article on its own merits. And unfortenately it displays sertain erratic notions about the hermetic traditons and rosicrucianism in general, sources from which the G.D. current stems, at least from my limited point of view.
I'm sorry if you were offended by my post, especially about the "anglo saxon" thing. I was just stating that there exists a different attitude on the mysteries on the Europen continent as opposed to the British Islands and U.S.A. BTW I wasn't referring to a race, but to a difference in cultures, i.e. attitudes because of cultural upbringing etc.
The fact is that continental Europe has had an older and longer living tradition of hermeticism compared to Britain. That's why Westcott tried to invent a continental connection to Europe, don't you think?
I have tried to bring in examples in my text about how I see traditional Rosicrucian in Europe. There's lots of evidence for that, as I have pointed out; GuRK, AB and AA, etc. I'm sorry that you didn't address these more but focused on the tone of my message.
Your'e right about that the Third Order level never was implemented by the A.O. under Mathers. They however worked to a level which included 7=4, were the sexual mysteries were supposed to garther.
Hence, the notion that G.D. only were worked ut to and includin ThAM only applies to the pre-schism period.
I cannot prove anything of what I have said regarding the sexual mysteries of the A.O., because of its very nature. I just wanted to present the other side of the story. Take it for what it is.
Again, exept my apology if my language was innapropriate. It wasn't my intention to insult you or anyone else, for that matter. I perhaps should have read through my post before sending it, but it was an honest attempt to address certain issues you have raised, which btw I saw partly as an attack on the Order that I belong to.
But reading your responding letter Dean, you have taken it to a higer arc of negative polemy that I expected from you.
My suggestion is that we both calm outselves down and strive to reinstate fraternal discussion between us instead. We, (and perhaps the G.D. community) would only benefit from this.
We will probably disagree on many points, coming from different "tradition" within a common tradition, but we must agree to disagree.
You have shown me where you have drawn the line for etiquette. Point is well taken.
S.R.
Ave S.R.,
You comment about how I "have shown [you] where [I] have drawn the line for etiquette" and how "[I] have taken it to a higer arc of negative polemy that [you] expected from [me]", and how we should "both calm ourselves down and strive to reinstate fraternal discussion between us instead", and yet you fail to recognise that you were the one to make the first comment here, which included your slur against anglo-saxons. You preach about "negative polemy" and "etiquette" and how we should calm ourselves, and yet you do not seem to listen to your own advice.
But I don't see why the issue of sex magic should be a barrier to fraternal relations. Note that I do not disparage sex magic in my post. I only state that the evidence suggests that it was not a practice of the original Order. I have many occult friends who engage in sex magic, and I do not think there is anything inherently wrong with it. So don't take my comments as a dismissal of sex magic itself.
There are many elements of Rosicrucianism in Europe, various Orders espousing the Rosicrucian teachings. While many of these offer potential sources for some of the Golden Dawn teachings, I still hold true to the fact that sex magic isn't one of them. Unless you produce a Golden Dawn paper on the matter, no amount of arguing about oral teachings is going to convince me otherwise, and I am not alone in my sentiments here.
You mention you were offended by my comment regarding your Order. Note that I only said that I believe part of the confusion and misinformation to be as a result of your Order, and I decided not to mention it by name. Since your Order does include sex teachings, and I am making the argument that sex teachings were not part of the Golden Dawn, I think my mentioning of your Order is perfectly valid and does nothing but state fact (i.e. that your Order teaches sex magic in its higher grades).
In the end we will disagree on many things, as you said. I disagree with people within my own Orders at times. It happens. I would like that we don't return to this level of argument again, and instead simply realise that we're probably not going to convince each other of anything on these matters.
LVX,
Dean.
Hello there Dean and Fr S.R.,
I hope you are well. Many thanks for this post and the comments.
I would like to make some points:
(1) We need to be really clear what we mean when we say "Golden Dawn". Do we refer to (what i call 'classical' GD) the GD and RR et AC pre 1903, before the major splits? Or do we include all GD/RR et AC groups and work till the death of the Mathers and Westcott? Do we include the later SM and Whare Ra?
This is not quibbling, but clarification, as there can be no doubt there is no evidence of sexual magic within pre 1903 GD/RR et AC. What later groups did/do is another question, and one not easily answered.
Please note, I - and Dean, I think - did not say there was no sexual magic, but rather there is no evidence for it. Considering the pre 1903 GD is well documented, and the personal journals of several adepts (some not in the public eye, as such) survive, it would therefore be extremely unlikely sex magic played a part. The lack of evidence does not mean it did not occur, but when combined with the milieu of sexual negation mentioned by Dean, it is very, very unlikely.
(2) The later Mathers AO Inner Order MAY have engaged in some form of secret sexual magic. Again, there is no extant evidence for this, though I imagine there are archives held in private collections unseen by scholars which could clarify the matter. It is interesting that about the only “evidence” given for this is (a) Moina’s dressing down of Dion after the latter’s publication of the ‘Esoteric Philosophy of Love and Marriage”, saying she revealed some of the Order’s teachings, and (b) Moina’s letter to Paul Foster Case, saying (this is cut and pasted from the nearest site, not from my references, so I hope its accurate):
"I regret that anything on the Sex question should have entered into the Temple at this stage for we only begin to touch on sex matters directly, in quite the higher Grades. In fact, we only give a rather complete explanation of this subject in that Grade where the Adept has proved to be so equilibrated and spiritualized that he is complete lord of his passionate self. Believe me, this is not mere theory."
As will be clear from reading Dion’s work and a clear reading of the quote, there is nothing here to suggest PRACTICAL sex magic is taught at the higher grades, even 7=4. What ‘touch on sex matters directly’ means is open to interpretation, but in no way does it HAVE to mean practical instruction on physical sex magic. The allusion to ‘not mere theory’ does not have to imply teachings on physical sex magic, only that Moina has practically seen the results of teaching on the ‘sex question’ prematurely. In Dion’s fraternity there was no physical sex magic, though as Christine Hartley explained to Alan Richardson, “that does not mean sex was not involved”, referring to non-physical polarity magic.
(3) All this said, later groups within the GD tradition but before the Occult revival of the 70s may have taught sexual magic (there were plenty outside the GD tradition). Again there is no documentary evidence for this, but it to me seems a likely occasional occurrence because of (a) groups like the Cromlech Temple referring obliquely to such things, (b) the influence of very public and very sexually focused Crowleyan OTO, (c) some people will always bring sex into everything they do and (d) I have personally spoken to people who were members of such Orders. But do we consider these Orders, the Golden Dawn? Personally, I think it muddies the issue if we do.
(4) I intend to post something on this on Magic of the Ordinary, but for now: the rumours that have recently reached me (I am a bit of an isolationist) about Third Orders and Sex Magic and the Aura Papers etc, leave me confused. There is no way the Aura Papers are important enough or contain unpublished or un-thought about mysteries or practices to warrant them being considered (today) as anything other than historical curiosities. Anyone who thinks they will get (or teach) important sexual magic teachings from the Aura Papers is wrong; you’d be far better of studying some of the original alchemical or tantric texts. Personally, I think the Three Order schema of the original tradition where physical teachings and initiations ceased at 7=4 is a better motif than initiating people into a physical Third Order. And, the (later) GD based Orders I know of, which did incorporate sexual teachings, did so at the 7=4 level (after a two stage preparation at 5=6 and 6=5).
Dean, I expect you’ll get more comments…sex always get us going :)
Peregrin
Sure Dean, the resposibility is mine. And I agree on most of what you have said. "Evidence" points to the contrary of sexual techniques being used in the Golden Dawn. This was a fact in the early decades of the Golden Dawn. But I firmly believe that these matters changed after Mathers had established contact with Lux E Tenebris. But this of course won't convince you or anyone else. Like I said: Let us agree to disagree.
My comment on the prevailing victorian heritage in the Anglo Saxon cultural sphere was not an intentional slur, even if it could be interpreted as one. I was just making an observation. I actually am a stong anglo-phile, that's probably one of the reasons I initially were drawn towards G.D. in the first place. Swedish culture , I believe, is more Anglo Saxon than continental, blending with some German influences. So much of the "critique" actually appies to my own "race".
But please, make some research on contintal Rosicrucianism. After a few years you will find that it all converges to teachings of or similiar to the AA, thorugh the Misraim or Memphis-Misraim traditions (still living today). Even much of the Martinist traditions converge with M.M. in the higest mysteries. While there exists AA:s which doesn't contain sexual teachings, the Cagliostro version (which is the real one) has.
Personally I prefer the term inner (sexual) alchemy, as "sex magic" has connotations which leads to Pascal Beverly Randolph, Aleister Crowley and O.T.O. The sexual mysteries of Rosicrucianism has nothing to do with these techniques.
BTW, you said earlier: "I know what inner alchemy is, and it's much broader than what you seem to imply."
I'm interestd in reading what your interpretation of the term "Inner Alchemy" actually means. While I wont argue or discuss this topic any more (as I have already openly stated my opinon about this), I still am curious of your view.
S.R.
What a pity it is that Miss Horniman
When she wants to secure or suborn a man
Should choose Willie Yeats
Who still masturbates
And at any rate isn't a horny man.
Oliver Gogarty
The following is my personal take on the subject of sex magic and is not to be taken as approving or condemning any particular order's sexual praxis or lack thereof. (In other words, if you disagree with me that's fine but please don't yell. ;-) )
First, I believe that God didn't give us any physical or spiritual ability he didn't intend for us to use. Therefore, I don't feel that lifelong celibacy is necessary or even desirable as a path to the divine. Indeed, in the religious tradition I was raised, sex is not only permitted; it's a mitzvah (religious obligation) within marriage, provided that both partners love each other and enjoy their intimacy.
That said, I've always been wary regarding sex (other than auto-eroticism) as a required praxis within a magical or mystical order, particularly when not limited to couples already in a committed relationship. It's not that I think that non-marital sex (magical or otherwise) is a priori "wrong." Again, as Mathers always said, one's private life is one's own to live.
Within an official, group setting, however, I think there's a real danger in introducing sexual activity amongst members (leaders or otherwise) who aren't already in a committed relationship. Why? Four words: potential abuse of power. Although it's traditional for us in the Western esoteric community to call fellow members "brother" and "sister," in reality within our orders we're not all on equal footing. And I'm not just talking degrees and badges. Older members are generally deferred to by younger members (or expect to be), and the more knowledgeable by the less knowledgeable. So to tell members they must have sexual relations, of whatever sort, with a brother or sister, is potentially to create abuse of power. I trust I needn't elaborate on that. Not to mention that many people join and, yes, even create orders or "study groups" solely for the purpose of gratifying their sexual desires, and sod it if anyone gets emotionally, spiritually or even physically (think STDs) hurt in the process.
Now having said that, if a particular order states up front that it practices sex magic, and especially if the leaders have a clear, written, non-negotiable code of ethics for such praxis, then I don't see nearly as big a problem.
The news media--and I'm talking reliable newspapers and such, not gossipy tabloids--are full of stories about spiritual leaders who are, shall we say, not so up-front about their sexual expectations of group members, particularly the young, meek and attractive ones. Until, that is, one or more of their sexual harrassment/assault victims gathers the courage to leave the group and inform the authorities, often at considerable personal risk.
So I'd say to anyone considering joining a group that practices sex magic: if you're given a reasonable idea of what you're getting into, with clear ethical boundaries and the option of refusal at any point, go for it. If not, and anyone, whether superior or peer, tries to pressure you into doing anything you didn't sign up for, LEAVE IMMEDIATELY. Remember the assurance given the candidate in the 0=0 initiation, that you're not required to do anything "incompatible with your civil, moral or religious duties."
Dear Dean,
In a lecture I gve at the NY GD Conference in 1998 on the Cromlech Temple I presented a suggested solution to the puzzle of why Moina Mathers castigated both Paul Case and Dion Fortune for revealing material on the 'Sex Question'. It should be noted that in both cases it was stated that this material is 'reserved for the quite higher Grades'. But what does this mean? The answer can only be, in my view, a reference to the Cromlech Temple, which we know for a FACT that Macgregor Mathers joined around 1908-1910 (revealed in a letter from Felkin to Miss Stoddard). Second, Brodie-Innes succeeded Mathers as Head of the AO and he was also Head, or Metatron, of the Cromlech Temple. Now it is equally the case in both the Stella Matutina and the AO that some of the Chiefs and senior Adepti regarded Cromlech as reserved only for the higher Grades of the AO etc and there are even suggestions of it being either the Third Order or a bridge to it. Thus Cromlech was regarded as 'the Higher Grades'.
Quite a few of the Aura papers (I have them all) refer to sex in a very liberal way: i.e. that NO expression of sexuality should be condemned. This was rather risque for Victorian times. There are no sexual practises, or 'sex magic' however in any of the Cromlech documents. Just theory.
One of the (still unpublished) ThAM papers of the GD does actually also enter into this same territory and it was actually reclassified in the late 1920s as suitable only for 8=3. I can't see why personally - it is a remarkably innocuous document.
Regarding Moina and her statement re her attitude to sex: it is actually somewhat ambiguous. While it may relate to her relations with her husband it can also be read as their attitude towards sex with elementals, which was precisely the topic under discussion. I am more inclined to the latter as a more feasible interpretation.
Regards
Tony
so if you have sex on a material plane, you can say, I like your ass, and if you have sex on an elemental plane, you can say, I like your ast, as in astral. And what's the astral plane date etiquette btw? Do you have to wait 2 days before 'reappearing'? I am working on a form of astral birth control that involves quartz crystals, please contact me for a price list.
Ave Peregrin,
Thank you for the comment and the excellent information (and apologies for the delay in my response) :)
(1) I agree that it is necessary to clarify which groups of the blanket-term "Golden Dawn" we're referring to here. As you clearly stated, however, in the pre-1900 Order, which is well documented, there are no sex magic teachings. However, I can see no evidence for sex magic teachings in the SM or AO, for that matter, although I must admit being less knowledgeable about the latter than the former.
Thank you for expressing the point of "lack of evidence does not mean evidence of lack". Your input here explains my points far better than my original, somewhat heated, comments to Fr. S.R. There is still the possibility that sexual teachings were included in the G.'.D.'., but I have thus far seen no evidence for it, and, as Tony Fuller points out later, even the sexual teachings of the Cromlech Temple Aura Papers are a far cry from sex magic itself (being purely theoretical in focus).
(2) Likewise, we know less about the AO than we do about the original GD or the SM, so this is still a matter of debate. However, as you pointed out, the main impetus for the argument for sex magic in the GD seems to be from the two letters Moina wrote, to Fortune and Case. You make some excellent points that these sexual teachings may be symbolic or theoretical in nature. The letters are sufficiently ambiguous to dispel any single interpretation.
(3) I agree that considering these later groups as the Golden Dawn muddies the water quite a bit. The Cromlech Temple, for one, is linked with the Golden Dawn, but is not the Golden Dawn itself, so while the Sun Order had sexual teachings that many G.'.D.'. members (being members of the S.'.O.'.) were privy to, we can't equate the one with the other.
(4) I look forward to your post on this subject on your blog. This is one of those issues where so much confusion and misinformation lies that more clarifying posts would be extremely useful to the occult world at large.
Likewise, I concur with your belief that physical initiations ending at 7=4 is a better motif. From what I've seen of the Aura Papers (I have not seen them all), I concur that, while they are interesting, there is not enough "meat" there to warrant them being considered as some of the "arcane" sex magic teachings that some people hint at in regards to the Third Order.
Thanks again for the great comment and insights :)
LVX,
Dean.
Ave Andrew,
Thanks for sharing that humorous piece. I've never seen it before :)
LVX,
Dean.
Ave Yehi,
Thank you for your insightful post.
From your description, I'm assuming you are Jewish? I know that to NOT have sex with one's wife in Judaism would be considered "wrong". Despite the misconceptions about Judaism and sex, sex is never seen as a bad thing, providing it is within the confines of a healthy marriage (more liberal sects are, obviously, more liberal on what defines a "healthy marriage", including, for example, gay couples).
Personally I agree with you on being wary of groups or Orders that require sexual practices. It's not that I think there's anything wrong with sex magic in itself (although it is, like some other forms of magic, open to extreme abuse). I think that should be left to the individual, however, or to specific groups that explicitly state that they work with sex magic.
Your advice to prospective members of Orders that practice sex magic is excellent, and I agree wholeheartedly with it. While I do not wish to inspire a fearful or cynical attitude towards sex or sex magic, I think it's important that the potential risks be discussed and weighed before joining such Orders.
LVX,
Dean.
Ave Tony,
Thank you for the very intriguing comment. I was unaware of your lecture or the viewpoint presented in it, but it makes a lot of sense. Of the limited knowledge I have of the Cromlech Temple, I believe membership of it was reserved for Adepts, thus meaning they considered it to be "higher teachings", as it were. You mention suggestions of the Cromlech Temple being the Third Order or a bridge to it - is there any chance you can provide some references to this? Thank you.
As for the Aura Papers, I have only seen a handful of them, but I concur that the teachings on sex contained within them were very risque for the times.
In regard to Moina's comments on sex, yes, part of that is solely in reference to the elementals, but it doesn't seem to be the entire case. She states that the theory of incubi and succubi gave her a shock, but not such a horrible one as when she learned "about the human condition". She talks about loathing her mother, etc., which has nothing to do with elementals. She also mentions having "nothing whatever to do with any sexual connection", and explains this in regard to "the human, the elemental", and so forth. So, while she does mention the elemental, she also mentions the human (quite explicitly), so I don't think it is that ambiguous.
Thanks again for sharing :)
LVX,
Dean.
The Royal Art uses the fires of love and sexuality to cook the matter of your physical body into an immortal body of light. It can transform your life in a deeply positive way.
Interesting thread...
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